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Comment from Kelly
Date: October 19, 2009, 11:15 pm

The story you did about Stu, the mayor unexpectedly made me cry. It just came upon me. The idea of a crowd of conservatives cross-dressing to support their mayor just poked at my heart. Good for them!

Comment from Eddie Lin
Date: October 20, 2009, 12:15 am

The best show so far. At least it’s my favorite.

Comment from Yulo
Date: October 20, 2009, 12:57 am

That is the most scary sheep ever . Untill baboons and foxes can trade at NYSE there is not reason for them to abandon violence – its the way they get they get theirs.
I discovered radiolab two weeks ago . You are the awesomest show ever. The urge to consume everything offered in two days is strong but i’m trying to limit myself to a few shows a week.
Thanks Jad & Krulwich .
ps. The sound effects are too intense , distracts me from the road so i cannot listen while driving.

Comment from Henry
Date: October 20, 2009, 1:52 am

loved your story about stu. that was really beautiful to me.

one thing. in your domesticated-foxes-story, when explaining the idea around how we have domesticated ourselves, one of your guests is talking about how this tendency towards working together points to “the beginning of society and rule of law, in the way that we think of it today”. cue the classical, traditionally anglo music. it’s very beautiful, but I think you should examine why you chose that.

Comment from Michael
Date: October 20, 2009, 2:20 am

Your broadcast held my attention keenly. (It usually does…) I patiently await the day that the RadioLab staff receives its Nobel Peace prize (!), and I intend that to be taken as a sincere compliment with no reflection upon any recent recipients, nor the selection process.

There is an interesting connection to the program’s introductory question as posed by John Horgan (will there ever be and end to war?) and its concluding remarks by Richard Wrangham (how humans are effectively domesticating themselves). Namely, that the very process of fighting wars – repetitively, over hundreds if not thousands of generations – leads to a concomitant reduction in the population of alpha (human) males. And thus, effectively, human domestication is accelerated that much more by war itself. War will ultimately lead to a more peaceful human society…

Comment from Lauren D
Date: October 20, 2009, 2:55 pm

Just finished listening to New Normal. I can’t get enough of RadioLab.

I have a question…This American Life ran an episode back on December 19 2008 called Ruining it for the Rest of Us >>

http://www.thisamericanlife.org/Radio_Episode.aspx?sched=1275

all about bad apple theories and how research has shown it can only take one bad apple to ruin the behavior of an entire group. I’ve personally experienced this multiple times when working in groups of people.

How do you think this type of research fits into the evolving good of human nature when one bad/violent person holds the potential to change behaviors of large groups?

Also, your story about Stu unexpectedly brought tears to my eyes at work. Very moving. Great job!

Comment from Tim
Date: October 20, 2009, 3:32 pm

This show was so wonderfully informative, as your shows usually are. I was particularly touched by the story of Stu. One point of interest, was when his long time girlfriend was speaking of the whispers she heard and the problems he faced. I found the issues he faced fairly typical and not that surprising, what I found interesting however was the decision the shows Editor made in bleeping her saying the word tits, but not bleeping her saying the word fagot. Perhaps it was for impact. I detest censorship of any kind, so I wasn’t upset to hear the word (although on the radio, in music anyway, fagot is almost always bleeped) but more intrigued by the choice of the word to bleep, at least the work I think was bleeped. It was just an interesting side note. Keep up the great work with Radiolab.

Comment from andy
Date: October 20, 2009, 9:44 pm

Many thanks for another thought-provoking show. Stu’s story — and that of his town and townsfolk — was very touching. It’s sad, however, to think that it was included in your show because it is an outlier…

Anything that smacks of eugenics is likely to be cringe-inducing. The idea that the execution of violent criminals is helping to change the overall genetic makeup of humanity is no exception. Taken with the story about Stu, however, it might be interesting to consider other ways in which humanity might be changing its overall genetic makeup. Will acceptance (which I wholeheartedly support) of different sexual orientation lead to more people of different sexual orientation in the populace? What other traits (foxy ears and so-forth) might come along?

Ah, the adventure that is our lifelab.

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Date: October 21, 2009, 6:01 am

[...] WNYC – Radiolab » New Normal? The best episode of the best show on the radio yet. (tags: radiolab science radio podcast listen) [...]

Comment from Kento
Date: October 21, 2009, 7:56 am

I’m only several minutes into the show, and I want to comment before I listen to the rest of it. I want to answer whether I believe war is inevitable.

I’d have to very reluctantly answer “yes,” but I believe peace is achievable, and sustainable for long, long periods of time. It’s just I don’t assume humans are going to go extinct anytime soon, and assuming there’s always a small chance of war, it will have to happen eventually.

Comment from Anne
Date: October 21, 2009, 8:26 am

Great story about Stu Rasmussen! Thanks for sharing this with the world.

Comment from kate
Date: October 21, 2009, 2:45 pm

Great show! I think I saw the same Sapolsky story about the baboon troop on a PBS/Nat Geo special: http://www.pbs.org/stress/

Pingback from Amazing Radio Show « Sahel Hound
Date: October 21, 2009, 10:02 pm

[...] science topics with a cool attitude and an edgy sound mix. Last week they ran a show called “New Normal”. It’s a must-listen for any Robert Sapolsky [...]

Comment from Sai Emrys
Date: October 22, 2009, 5:23 am

@tim: “Tits” is one of the words that is prohibited on the air by the US FCC (after it was in Carlin’s “Seven Dirty Words” sketch). “Faggot” is not.

They bleeped it not for editorial reasons (I think) but for legal ones, i.e. they will get fined if they don’t and air it. (OTOH, they don’t have to censor it here. It’d be nice if they gave us the ‘uncut’ versions.)

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_dirty_words

@radiolab: You identified Stu’s protesters simply as “evangelicals”. However, the audio and slogans sounded very much like they were from Westboro Baptist Church, which is more extreme than most evangelicals have a taste for. If I’m right, they might both take umbrage at your conflation.

Anyhow, excellent show as always; better than usual.

Comment from mgm
Date: October 22, 2009, 7:33 am

Hopi Elders Prophesy -
To my fellow swimmers:
here is a river flowing now very fast.
It is so great and swift,
that there are those who will be afraid,
who will try to hold on to the shore,
they are being torn apart and will suffer greatly.
Know that the river has its destination.
The elders say we must let go of the shore,
push off into the middle of the river,
and keep our heads above water.
And I say see who is there with you and celebrate.
At this time in history we are to take nothing personally,
least of all ourselves, for the moment we do,
our spiritual growth and journey come to a halt.
The time of the lone wolf is over.
Gather yourselves.
Banish the word struggle from your attitude and vocabulary.
All that we do now must be done in a sacred manner and in celebration.
For we are the ones we have been waiting for.

If I ever move, Silverton, OR will be the first place I check out. We can CHOOSE to live in fear or in love. Love (saccharin not included) shows up in the presence of acceptance and respect.

To JA & RK – Your CHOICE to eschew jolting noises in this report allowed me to stay in ‘juvenile fox’ mode. Much appreciated!

Comment from Jerome
Date: October 22, 2009, 11:55 am

Another brilliant show with fascinating examples! And I just love how you present the content

You guys definitely rock. Your shows should be mandatory in schools!

Pingback from Wat ass normal? « Grommel deLuxe
Date: October 22, 2009, 12:20 pm

[...] Go to comments Radiolab huet nees en neien, brillianten Podcast op hiere Site gestallt: ‘New normal?‘ (en passt och an die rezent Genderdebatte, déi hei um Blog stattfonnt [...]

Comment from sarah
Date: October 22, 2009, 12:30 pm

goosebumps to tears in one episode. i loved this one.

Comment from Rob Ritchey
Date: October 22, 2009, 8:27 pm

RE: baboon story…I sense that the behavioral software that genetically determines our behavior has essentially not changed in something like 40K years…but the environment we use it in has..technology.. and we, as individuals don’t carry identical behavioal software packages..we’re not all vanilla ..there are subtypes…there are affiliators…maybe half of us that are uncomfortable with initiating aggression.are more comfortable with change and accepting new individuals from other tribes..and maybe half are more tribal…scared of strangers..quick to attack outsiders…you know..half from the ‘left’…half from the ‘right’…a smaller genotype sees a unique global synthesis of environmental infomation..less in the moment…and unlikely to follow orders from leadership fiqures as most others do without much question..and leaders which seek only rank and political power..nonaffiliators…like other nonaffiliators…don’t have friends so much as ,rather ,alliances as links to rank and power within the group…war yields resources of all kinds..and power….success of the group and ,of course, the genepool it represents.Humans evolve as a group…we’re social…war was good for the genes. Technology makes it ultimately dangerous.

Comment from Maggie Anderson
Date: October 23, 2009, 9:44 pm

I want to see pictures of the foxes! They sound so cute…

Comment from Harry Gray
Date: October 24, 2009, 12:24 am

Listened to the story about Stu – almost as good as our local former Mayor Georgina Beyer; a trans-sexual who once was a hooker, came to a small town in a farming community, helped young people, became mayor, and was even elected as a Member of Parliament in New Zealand!
As always, a really good show – love getting the podcast, from down here in New Zealand.

Comment from Marc Larrivee
Date: October 24, 2009, 4:15 am

This was an excellent show and it was an especially nice introduction. The question: Do you think war is here to stay? It is hard to see a world without war, but I would challenge all people who said “people” are too greedy, and it’s “human nature” etc. for war to be a thing of the past, to think all the human relationships you have that are based on anything but our basest instincts. I think it is easy to let those who create and perpetuate the status quo to set the terms of debate. It is giving a way a whole lot. I think the show unmasked the notion that people, culture and life itself is always changing and can change in remarkably dramatic ways.

Comment from Lee
Date: October 24, 2009, 12:58 pm

Increasing our emotional competency is essential for ending war. This is something we can all learn, see: EmotionalCompetency.com

We can learn to cope with abundance.

Comment from Izzie Zahorian
Date: October 24, 2009, 2:58 pm

This was the most incredible thing I’ve heard this year and the most incredible podcast I’ve heard in my whole life.

Thank you.

I teared up near the end of Part II because I was so touched. And then the sun starting shining really brightly through my window (it’d been cloudy and rainy all day.) Strange…

Comment from Matthew Boll
Date: October 24, 2009, 3:45 pm

brilliant episode
lets hope for the sea change!

Comment from Derek
Date: October 25, 2009, 2:47 pm

often times I’m surprised by the excellent music and production quality of this show, did anyone recognize the music towards the end that was played o the cello, or was that an original piece written for the show?

Pingback from More “Radio Lab” greatness | Everything will be OK!
Date: October 25, 2009, 5:40 pm

[...] Lab,” that’s only because I am. Great, great radio program. Check out the most recent episode about (if somewhat loosely) whether humans can actually change in the face of historical/genetic [...]

Comment from j
Date: October 26, 2009, 3:57 pm

i’ve been listening to your show for many months now, and trying to download and hear every episode. thank you for sharing your ideas, your questions, your music, your interviews, and your incredible arrangements of these pieces.

when listening to the piece on domesticating foxes, and the following analysis on the domestication of people, i felt sad. i do want a more peaceful, caring, world, but i don’t want people, us, to loose our wildness – our sharp senses (our pointy ears), our instincts (for danger and pleasure). can we do both?

Comment from Sheeva
Date: October 26, 2009, 10:12 pm

After a long day, hearing a story like Stu’s was just a really beautiful reminder of how amazing people can be sometimes, thanks for a fantastic show!

Comment from Lis
Date: October 26, 2009, 10:35 pm

I wish you had mentioned the Napoleonic wars as a turning point to a more modern, domesticated society. The war-fighters were effectively wiped out of Europe, until WWI and WWII. The Europe that has followed is highly domesticated, and seems to Americans as either idyllic or wussified (very little in between).
As always, a fantastic and thought-provoking show. Thank you!

Comment from Travis Evans
Date: October 26, 2009, 10:57 pm

Does anyone know that acoustic guitar song they’re playing at around the 18 minute remaining point? I think it’s an old Zeppelin tune, would love to find out for sure.

Comment from Chris
Date: October 27, 2009, 7:37 am

@Travis – Black Mountain Side from Led Zeppelin 1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Mountain_Side

Comment from JeffO
Date: October 27, 2009, 10:47 am

A serendipitous moment found me at the snack bar at The Palace movie theatre in Silverton, OR, last Friday night to see ‘Where the Wild Things Are’ (first-run movie for two plus popcorn – $10.30!) As I looked at the hand serving me the popcorn I noticed the red nail polish, then I took in the whole person and said, ‘Are you Stuart?’. He said, ‘Yes’, and reminded me that it was WNYC’s RadioLab where I’d heard his story earlier in the week. I replied, ‘It’s a pleasure to meet you.’ Funny how life does this… Great guy, great town, great theater – go experience it yourself!

Comment from Donnie
Date: October 27, 2009, 2:44 pm

I am a huge fan of the show. I haven’t missed an episode yet, but I was disappointed by one line in this show (Sai already mentioned this). I’m an evangelical pastor and I was disappointed by the term “evangelical” being used to describe the Westboro Baptist Church protesters in Silverton. I think that group has been in the news so much that just a sentence or two of explanation would have worked for the listeners to get an idea of who those people were. I remain a huge fan of the show, but I just wanted to make clear that Fred Phelps and his crew from Westboro do not represent me or my congregation or, for that matter, any other evangelicals that I know.

Comment from Seth
Date: October 28, 2009, 10:45 am

I’ve been working my way back through your shows and this latest one really hits it out of the ballpark. Well done. Your interviews are amazing and the technical work is inspiring.

I’ve been telling everyone I know to listen to you guys.

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Date: October 28, 2009, 12:53 pm

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Comment from Josh
Date: October 29, 2009, 2:10 am

There’s simply no finer podcast than this. Radiolab’s production, chemistry, and content…especially evident in this episode are enlightening. Humbling. Hilarious.

A pure joy to listen to. Thanks for your efforts.

Pingback from Um podcast imperdível « b a n a n a l o g i c
Date: October 29, 2009, 1:43 pm

[...] Estou a ouvir um podcast delicioso, de temas fantásticos, após dica do Seth Godin. Não percam, no Radio Lab. [...]

Comment from Mike Betette
Date: October 29, 2009, 3:03 pm

I wonder if the same adrenal gland that made the foxes ears fold over when they were domesticated has any connection to how the dorsal fins of killer whales kept in captivity eventually fold over as well.

Comment from Mike Betette
Date: October 29, 2009, 3:16 pm

Also, there was a study done a while back (can’t remember where or by who) but they compared the number of wars and number of deatha per wars since there were records of such and it has always been steadily decreasing. part of it may be because of technology there are less deaths, but still. I believe, in the study they said even WW I and WWII had less deaths than previous wars.

Pingback from Base interviews artist Emilie Halpern | BaseNow
Date: October 30, 2009, 4:17 am

[...] was having trouble sleeping last night, so I listened to the latest podcast of Radiolab. The episode opens up with people responding to the question “Do you think humans will ever stop [...]

Comment from Maou Tsaou
Date: October 31, 2009, 1:45 am

do you people realize how stupid it sounds for y’all to be telling me how F’n RARE it is to see primates doing ANY-god-damn-THING in the wild?
what is rare is to have ANY human attempt to live in the wild and describe ANYTHING that goes on there…
Very, VERY anthromorphic pov… no imagination.
And YES, I piss on your “scolarship”

Comment from Maou Tsaou
Date: October 31, 2009, 4:29 am

Sorry, I owe more of an explanation than “I piss…”
Excuse my crassness please.
My point would be something like it’d take 20 generations of mice @ 5yrs per lifespan to observe a single human life of 100yrs, ergo how many human generations (@~20yrs per) of obeservation would it take to tell if quartz crystal replication is a “living system” on a time scale that we ain’t aware of?

Comment from Lisa Hall
Date: October 31, 2009, 9:50 am

Thank you Radiolab.
Stu’s story was an incredible one although a bit unfortunate that it is considered an “outlier”–if only….

Comment from Serena
Date: October 31, 2009, 2:14 pm

Beautiful, also brought tears to my eyes.

Comment from Jo
Date: October 31, 2009, 2:55 pm

Too sad that the reason the foxes were being domesticated was so they would be more amenable to being slaughtered for their pelts.

Comment from Paul
Date: November 2, 2009, 1:31 pm

I suppose people are too complex for much breeding. We’d probably develop insanity on the way to peacefulness. Complexity may be the reason there’s not a race of super soldiers out there. (with props to US Mil)

Pingback from New RadioLab Episodes « The Castro Manifesto
Date: November 3, 2009, 4:54 am

[...] just finished listening to an episode called New Normal? which might appeal to readers of this blog – all two of you. OK, ok… all 30 of [...]

Pingback from Secrets of the peaceful baboon | Karen Valencic’s Blog
Date: November 3, 2009, 8:21 am

[...] is wonderful audio program on WNYU Radio Lab where I learned about a troop of baboons who transformed their culture of aggression into one of [...]

Pingback from El Oso » Archive » [Review] The Road
Date: November 4, 2009, 8:16 am

[...] Update – Extremely related: New Normal? [...]

Comment from Christian
Date: November 4, 2009, 4:21 pm

In the account of the baboon troupe where most of the males died off and the troupe developed a more peaceful culture… That’s actually happening in Rwanda!

Sadly, yet fascinatingly, Rwanda’s male population was decimated in the genocide of 1997 (also many males fled and haven’t returned). That left a radically lop-sided female-dominated population where now suddenly women have the dominant role in government and business. NPR did a story on this in May of 2008: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=90587253

Also, about whether or not humans will ever stop fighting wars… We are very much headed in that direction, as the following links make clear:

* http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/steven_pinker_on_the_myth_of_violence.html
* http://www.slate.com/id/2224275/

Comment from Jack Vaughan
Date: November 5, 2009, 1:19 am

I used to [1974] each night ride a very late train from S Ste in Bos. Met a fellow who read on the rides. For example: “The Anvil of Civilization”; was studying. Told me reason: He wanted to find out ‘why man fights.’ Was interesting to see this similar take on the general issue.

Comment from John Simpson
Date: November 6, 2009, 2:51 pm

@Travis – the song is actually “Bron-Yr-Aur” from the Physical Graffiti album. Wonderful tune.

Comment from Heidi Stettner
Date: November 6, 2009, 5:41 pm

I started listening to the New Normal? this morning and while I was intrigued by the baboon story, I was disappointed you didnt’ talk about how males raised in the “pacifist” tribe fared when they went to live elsewhere.

Comment from Joseph
Date: November 6, 2009, 11:46 pm

Wonderful episode!

I was hoping that someone would be able to identify the little cello song that plays around 56:25, I’ve been asking everyone! If anyone knows, it would be much appreciated,

Comment from Kelly
Date: November 7, 2009, 10:55 am

The story on Stu was really inspirational. I heard about him before but never so in depth.

Comment from kb
Date: November 11, 2009, 3:20 pm

loved this episode. thanks!
one correction I’d like to propose: when Stu’s girlfriend Victoria is referring to a movie about a boy who is beat to death for being gay, she starts to say “Boys Don’t…” and Jad interjects “Matthew Shepard.” I’d like to point out that Boys Don’t Cry is about Brandon Teena, who was a transgender boy — while both stories are incredibly tragic, I think Brandon Teena’s story is more directly relevant to the story about Stu, since it is in fact not so much about sexual identity as it is about gender identity (and people’s persistent confusion about the difference between the two, and ignorance and hatred of what they don’t understand). Just thought I’d put it out there, in the interest of transgender visibility.

Pingback from Make Love Not War « The Castro Manifesto
Date: November 18, 2009, 11:43 am

[...] Now, some might say that animals fight – which is true – but then, we are not animals in the traditional sense – we can – self reflect. Although, even animal behaviour can change. [...]

Comment from Dave J.
Date: November 19, 2009, 1:48 pm

Way to make this man want to wear a dress!

Comment from Matthew C. Scallon
Date: November 19, 2009, 4:11 pm

Umm. What happened to my comment?

Comment from kc vernon
Date: November 19, 2009, 6:29 pm

As usual, I loved the new show, save for one thing: as a resident of Laramie Wyoming, I found the portrayal of my home to be erroneous, uninformed and somewhat offensive. While Laramie is famous for the Matthew Shepard killing, the attitudes that perpetuated it are nowhere near representative of the population. Laramie is not a town of ‘rednecks’. It is the county seat of the only blue county in Wyoming during the 2008 election. The GLBTQ community here is large and thriving, while the student body and faculty at the University of Wyoming is largely progressive, informed and educated, as is the population not associated with the school. Laramie mourned and continues to mourn the loss of Matthew. Don’t think for a second that Laramie is any less accepting of homosexuals than any other place. The continuing proliferation of the image of Laramie as a ‘backward’ place is heartbreaking, especially in light of the effort that citizens put into making sure that Laramie is a safe and open community. Horrible things happen everywhere; don’t force the people here to wear a black hat forever due to the actions of two evil men.

Comment from Solange
Date: November 24, 2009, 11:39 pm

I don’t know if it was the best show so far, but it makes me wonder, cry and hope (and I confess I couldn’t believe when I heard the last music on the show. Rita Lee???? WOW!)

Comment from WER
Date: November 28, 2009, 7:54 pm

I’m a transgender person and avid listener of radiolab. I’d been wondering when I would hear something dealing with trans people brought up in a broadcast. I was pleasantly surprised and touched by the piece on Stu and radiolab’s mostly positive portrayal of trans people. For a show in a large part about science I was glad that radiolab didn’t medicalize and pathologize trans people as so often in unfortunately the case in media today. Keep up the good work! I hope there’s more trannys to come!

Comment from Kenan Hebert
Date: December 7, 2009, 3:23 pm

I absolutely loved this show. Emailed the link to friends, even. I agree that it’s one of the best Radiolab eps ever. Top 5 with a bullet.

Comment from Journey Roberts
Date: December 8, 2009, 7:07 pm

I just listened to this show. It made some interesting points about the evolution of society and how cultures bcome more civil, I did want to make the point that you forgot one very important aspect of gentrifying mankind, which is of course women. Theres a reason I want to marry Gregory Peck, and woudn’t give the governator the time of day

Comment from Corina
Date: January 8, 2010, 8:15 pm

I heard this on radiolab on Chicago public radio twice this week and I enjoyed it so much that I had to come find the podcast and listen again. I found the story about Stu to be incredibly heartwarming. All of the stories gave me a bit more hope that change in the world is possible.

Comment from nick
Date: January 22, 2010, 11:48 am

BRON-YR-AUR by Jimmy Page

Comment from Bo Bibbles
Date: January 24, 2010, 1:37 pm

After listening to the show I thought about the analogy between nations and baboons, and I think the social norm of the world is similar to the peaceful baboons. Most nations are against war, but if a country shows aggression towards another it will most likely meet it with aggression. Wouldn’t that hold true with the peaceful baboons? The wars we have now are meant to forcibly change the ideas and beliefs of another group; the war between the U.S. and Taliban/Al-Queda is meant to change their behavior. To fit the baboon analogy: They punched us for something we did earlier, so now we’re beating the crap out of them so they won’t do it again.

My guess would be that changing the social norm isn’t enough. Every individual would have to be able to let go any hostility we possibly could have.

Comment from Bryant
Date: January 28, 2010, 3:58 pm

I just listened to this episode on the way to work today. Very enjoyable and interesting! However, I’d like to make one comment about the baboon troop in the story. You pose the question of whether these baboons have changed their ‘nature’. To which a biologist answers no, they have not changed because their genes have not changed. True, in this biological sense they are the same, but it hardly dismisses the significance of the story. In fact, it only makes it more significant! It tells us that even the baboon, a far more violent and confrontational animal than humans, when placed in a welcoming, affectionate, and open environment can become peaceful. Surely it can’t take any more than that for humans to become peaceful, as well!

Comment from Bryant
Date: January 28, 2010, 4:13 pm

In addition, behavior for many animals is as much a result of their environment as it is a result of their genes. To characterize an animal completely by its genes is missing much of the picture. The point I’m trying to make is, just because there hasn’t been a biological change to the baboon does not mean that this change in behavior will not last. It tells us that, biologically, the baboon has the potential to be peaceful given the right environment. Barring another radical change to the culture of that baboon troop, I would hazard to guess that they will remain peaceful indefinitely. The implication for people is even more significant because culture and environment affects our behavior even more than it affects the baboon’s. Further, our culture is more malleable than that of the baboon. As people, we are blessed with the ability to examine, evaluate, and even change ourselves.

Comment from Diane Glasby
Date: March 4, 2010, 2:56 pm

Regarding the baboon story – I don’t understand why it was felt that the baboon’s changed culture was the result of an “unnatural occurrence.” Disease decimates animal populations all the time for all sorts of reasons. The baboons switching to a more cooperative and less competitive mode makes sense, and may actually be part of their genetic programing. Perhaps it was simply not witnessed before.
The effect that removing alpha males had on the group also reminded me of the results Plague had on Europe in medieval times. Political, social and economic relationships changed dramatically, often to the benefit of those lower on the social ladder who were suddenly free from serfdom or inherited land.